Sex, Drugs & Science
Sex, Drugs & Science
Liz Richards: Paid Family & Medical Leave
Liz Richards is Executive Director of the Delaware Cares Coalition for Paid Leave, which is a coalition of health, labor, faith, business, family and community organizations and advocates committed to passing Paid Family and Medical Leave in Delaware. Liz talks with Valerie and Carly about her work advocating for paid leave in Delaware, the research evidence supporting paid leave, and how scientists can support policy change surrounding paid leave.
Learn more about Delaware Cares here: https://www.decares.org/
Read Delaware Academy of Medicine / Delaware Public Health Association’s policy statement regarding Paid Family Medical Leave here: https://delamed.org/paid-family-medical-leave-statement/
Follow Delaware Cares on Twitter: @delawarecares
Follow Liz Richards on Twitter: @lizrr
Okay. I'm Valerie Earnshaw.
Carly Hill:I'm Carly hill.
Valerie Earnshaw:and this is sex drugs, and science welcome everybody to season two.
Carly Hill:Good to be back!
Valerie Earnshaw:one of our goals for this season is to connect more with people who are applying or using science in some way outside of academia. So, you know, like out there in the real world. This season, you're going to hear from scientists, who are studying policies related to sex and drugs, and also advocates and communities for helping to change policies. But then you're also going to get our regular programming around sex and drugs science.
Carly Hill:Yes. So we're kicking off the season with a conversation with Liz Richards. Liz is the executive director of Delaware Cares, which is an organization advocating for paid family and medical leave in Delaware, which is our home state. So we thought Liz would be a great person to talk to about using science, to advocate for policy change and start brainstorming about how scientists can support the efforts of people trying to make change.
Valerie Earnshaw:So we taped this on April 30th and on May 5th, one of our local senators, Senator Sarah McBrideintroduced the healthy Delaware families act to create a statewide paid family and medical leave insurance program. So, the bill is currently with committee. So as Liz advises all of us on the podcast, if you're a resident of Delaware, and if you support this policy, now is a good time for you to contact your representative and let them know that you support this very science-supported very evidence-based bill. So we hope that you enjoy this episode with Liz Richards. Liz Richards. Welcome to the show.
Liz Richards:Thank you so much, Valerie. It's great to be here.
Valerie Earnshaw:So we are looking so forward to having a conversation with you about the intersections of science and policy and advocacy, but before we do our deep dive into that, I'd love to get to know a little bit more about your background. You are a native Delawarean and you grew up in Delaware and you and Carly met each other in high school at the famed Cab Calloway, which is an arts high school in Wilmington, right?
Carly Hill:Cab Callaway school of the arts!
Valerie Earnshaw:Cab Callaway School of the Arts, All right. So I'm going to roll in with my first, like very hard hitting question of the day, which is what was Carly like in high school?
Liz Richards:Oh, well, I would say that Carly's defining feature then, which is Carly's defining feature now is her smile that.
Valerie Earnshaw:Aww!
Liz Richards:The best smiles. And I feel like I just remember Carly always laughing at something and always being a cheerful light in the room. Really!
Carly Hill:Isn't that so lovely slash also much lovelier than I think my high school self deserved, but I'll,
Liz Richards:Well, I have to tell the podcast people because I'm not sure they can see your smile and.. and it's, it's a good one. And Cab Callaway was a bit of a goofy school in many ways and we loved it for that reason. And a big group of misfits. Would you say Carly?
Carly Hill:Absolutely. Yeah. It's just, uh, an amalgam of people of all walks of life with all interests and just like a cool place to be. I think a really unique experience.
Liz Richards:It was, I miss it. I mean, I'm from Delaware, grew up here, have lived other places and so happy to be back here for good and c abs just down the street from me now. So I don't stray far away.
Carly Hill:Well, I can say that in high school, Liz was the absolute boss. Not at all surprised to hear that you're the executive director of this coalition. Delaware Cares. Liz was always like in mock trial and like debate and like, just like I knew somehow that Liz would be doing big things like this.
Liz Richards:That is very generous of you. I feel like I was probably overextending myself in too many clubs at the time. That's all right.
Valerie Earnshaw:Okay. These answers are great. I honestly thought you were going to say Carly's most memorable traits were like riding around on a unicycle while play a ukulele because that's how I envisioned her based on these stories from these time periods. But.
Carly Hill:I'm not saying it didn't happen.
Liz Richards:Yeah. She fit right in with that. Yeah.
Valerie Earnshaw:That was the vibe, right? Yeah. And then, yeah, I'm not at all surprised to hear that you were a boss, as Carly said, because the career trajectory today, it really is quite boss-like So from what Carly tells us, after you graduated from Cab Calloway, you went on to American University and you studied political science?
Liz Richards:I did. Yes. And fun fact for some folks who may or may not know the sponsor of our bill, who w as a Delaware l egislator, Senator S arah McBride. We both went to American University and S arah was the student body president. I was the student body vice president. So just kind of continued the Cab Calloway. I would say that I turned, we turned American university into like a continuation of cab Calloway school for the arts. So still Delaware pride all the way through.
Carly Hill:Yes.
Valerie Earnshaw:I love this. Let's put a quick plug for Sarah McBride's book on my bookshelf. Not here.
Carly Hill:Also. This might be the third or fourth time we've plugged this book on the podcast. We're going to have to...
Valerie Earnshaw:We Sent a copy of the book to Carmen Loggy our first guest. Yeah. I had just finished reading it, but anyway, she talks about her experiences at American university and It's like, it's lovely. It's where the book starts. So you, You've known each other since high school through university and now you're working together. Okay. So that's a great background.
Liz Richards:Yeah. I assure your listeners here that there were many years in between where we were not going to the same school or doing the same thing, but it's kind of cool that coming back to Delaware and especially this time doing this and working to make changes and make people's lives better, it's been really cool and really fun.
Valerie Earnshaw:So it sounds like then there was a break. So what were you doing between American university? And it sounds like coming back to Delaware, what was the meantime?
Liz Richards:I was working on, uh, political campaigns across the country.
Valerie Earnshaw:Oh, okay.
Liz Richards:Yes. Initially. I mean a brief history of my resume, I guess immediately after college, I worked at the democratic senatorial campaign committee that was in 2012. And so those were Senate races across the country. But then I went on races in New Jersey and Wisconsin worked on some governor's races and then got into political organizing and media in particular. So making TV ads for progressive candidates and causes, and then in between all that, it's kind of hopping around. The thing that really got me, where I am here is that in 2017, I had managed a similar coalition effort in Maryland to pass a paid sick days law. And when I came back to Delaware was thinking, you know, I know that paid family medical leave is something that needs to happen now. And something that had kind of been on the radar. So that experience really catapulted my interest in paid leave policies and got me thinking and talking to people about how it really impacts every level of people's lives. So there's been a lot of twists and turns in between, but yeah, it's good to be back in Delaware. And I was saying before the podcast started, I I've been in Delaware for a while since I've come back, but just move recently. And I think everyone right now with the pandemic is kind of doing a million things at one time and power to everyone out there because it's a lot.
Valerie Earnshaw:Absolutely. Well, Delaware is a great place to be during that pandemic. I'm going to make a plug for it. I mean, between our parks and our beaches and good takeout, food everywhere. It's been a, it's been a solid place to come home to.
Liz Richards:Oh, most definitely. What are your favorite takeout places I'm gonna put you on the spot.
Valerie Earnshaw:All right. So up the road from me, we've got daily vege, just like a vegan place.
Liz Richards:Is that on market street?
Valerie Earnshaw:So there's one on Main street in Newark and then up here in pike Creek. So that's been one of my go-to spots during the pandemic. Yeah. How about you all? What's your go-to pandemic food?
Carly Hill:I got to go with my gyro place, my falafel gyro place. It's the Halaal Kebab house. And it's behind where the Burger King used to be on Delaware avenue and South Chapel. There used to be a burger king somewhere abouts there catty-corner to the seven 11. It was once a little Caesar's, but is now the world's greatest falafel kebab gyro place ever.
Liz Richards:That's a glow up right there. It is. I'm going to go old school. Like I've been getting a lot of Capriotti's a lot of Italian and subs hoagies really, but yeah, I mean, I've been going back to my roots, a lot of potato chips, I've been consuming a lot of potato chips over this pandemic,
Carly Hill:It's a constant for me, like my whole life, but definitely upped my chip game in the pandemic. Yeah.
Valerie Earnshaw:We are really off track here listeners, but I just want to say, I discovered all dressed chips during the pandemic, which is like a combination of barbecue and like sea salt and vinegar or something. And I didn't, you know, I'm not a super chip person, the husband character slash roommate is a chip person. But I mean, if one of those things are open, it's going to be empty. Like I can relate to this chip pandemic issue.
Liz Richards:Did the flavors clash?
Valerie Earnshaw:No. They meld beautifully. It's amazing. I highly recommend it. I think it's Canada's number one ship really in the bag says,
Liz Richards:well, I'm in,
Carly Hill:we'll have to have the undergrads do research on that. Yes. To confirm.
Valerie Earnshaw:Yeah. Well, okay. So I'm going to take us on a, on a hard right turn from all dress chips back to Delaware cares. And then you, could you tell us a little bit about what the current state of paid leave is in our state for like for family and medical related reasons? What, where do we stand in Delaware currently?
Liz Richards:Sure! When people hear paid leave, they think of a lot of different things because it doesn't necessarily mean one thing. Some people think of it. If they talk about paid leave, they may be thinking, oh, I can get a sick day. I get paid a sick day. Some people think, oh, that's my PTO or whatever. Paid family and medical leave though. I think that most closely relates to FMLA. Have you, either of you heard of FMLA? So that's the thing I think most people are like, oh, I'm familiar with FMLA don't we have FMLA. Yes. It's a federal law that ensures that a worker won't get fired. If they have to take an extended period of leave, say to have a child, or if they are seriously ill, they need to be out for a while. It means that they won't lose their job. However, in Delaware, nearly 60% of Delawareans are not even covered under FMLA and mind you, that is unpaid leave. So that would mean you're out for weeks and weeks and weeks at a time, whether it's because you're seriously, ill have a child that you just gave birth to or welcomed into your family. And that's unpaid. So even among the 60% who don't have access to it among the 40% who do so many, just can't afford to take several weeks off when they're not getting a paycheck. There are have been nine states in the district of Columbia that have passed laws similar to the one that we have developed here in Delaware and are working to pass that would ensure that all workers have access to some sort of paid family and medical leave. So currently Delaware does not have this. It does for state, they passed a law a few years back ensuring that state workers can have parental leave. And that that would cover so that if they have a child, they can take paid parental leave, but that does not apply to people across the board. It does not include leave for a serious illness. And it also doesn't include caregiver leave, which has been incredibly important during the pandemic. There are so many people out there who are acting as caregivers to their family member who is seriously ill or is going through a sickness. And I think we've seen a lot of that during COVID where people will have to figure it out within their own household. And it's a really big deal. If you are acting basically as a full-time caregiver to somebody AND trying to work at the same time, trying to get, get a paycheck. So basically these laws that have been passed in nine other states and DC have created a state insurance fund to ensure that everyone has access to paid family and medical leave when they need it. Delaware does not have that right now. And as a result, there's a lot of people out there that are in a really tough spot, especially during the pandemic. And that's what we're trying to do.
Valerie Earnshaw:Yeah, that's phenomenal. I mean, I was digging around a little bit on the research on what are the benefits of paid leave. And I mean, it's just such a slam dunk, you know, so I mean, as you all cite in so many of your reports paid maternity and paternity leave, paid parental leave is associated with all sorts of better outcomes for parents and babies, right? Like longer breastfeeding, reduced morbidity and mortality, even higher vaccination rates for babies I saw and then better maternal health. It looks to me like some of the best research is on paid parental leave. But then also I saw some stats on people without paid sick leave are like three times more likely to forego medical treatment, which to me is bananas three times more likely not to go get healthcare when you need that healthcare, because you don't have that leave. And then they're like loved ones are one and a half or 1.6 times less likely to get care as well or more likely to forego care. I guess that's the way that it was phrased. So like not only is the person less likely to get care of their loved ones are less likely to get care because they can't support them. So if you just think through like the accumulating impacts on health over a lifetime for like not being able to get the care when you need it, when you're sick, I mean, that's just astronomical. It's such a big issue.
Liz Richards:That's exactly right. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you said one problem compounds, the other compounds, it's just stacking on top of each other, all these different stresses. You know, when someone is facing an illness, that's a big deal and they should be focusing on their health. They should be focusing on getting better. They shouldn't be focusing on how am I going to pay my electric bill this month? Where am I going to like put my kids in school? Like, how am I going to deal with this? And that's really what's happening right now. And we are benefiting from the research that's been done. Other states that have passed these k inds of laws, where it does show, wow. The d ifference i s really stark. And I think one other statistic that I thought was particularly interesting is that in California, they saw nursing home usage go down because basically family caregivers can have the time to care for a loved one. If they need to transition to a new care system or anything like that. And it's something that, especially during the pandemic, this has always been a need. But during the pandemic, the people that I talked to have just said, we really got to get this done. If it's not now, when is it? And the data is there. We actually, yesterday or two days ago now the Delaware academy of medicine and the Delaware public health association put out a very strong statement, supporting paid family medical leave. And that's just really what the data has shown. That it's something that helps families and keeps people healthier.
Valerie Earnshaw:I saw that come out. I was like, this is tremendous. This is a really big deal. Congratulations. Cause I'm sure that the advocacy work of your organization probably had something to do with that. So it's phenomenal. And I mean, so not only are our local Delaware organizations on board with this, also I think the American Public Health Association supports it. The American Academy of Pediatrics supports it. To me, you're the expert, but it looks like the nuances of what they recommend differ a little bit between the different statements, but across the board health organizations are like, they're like: this is something that's important to have.
Liz Richards:Absolutely. And I think that we're starting to see people make those connections between health and the economy and our broader social systems, because currently I'm actually, while I'm doing this, I'm getting my master's in public health. And one of the things they talk about a lot is the social determinants of health, which is basically in a nutshell is, you know, you could be taking a ton of medications, you could be going to the doctor every day, but if these structural limitations are in your way, that are getting in the way of your health, that is the stuff that makes the biggest difference. So it's really, I think a sign that the public health community is moving in that direction. And they're really recognizing that if we want to improve people's outcomes and quality of life, we have to address the root causes of health problems. And so that's really, I think where a lot of that's coming from and we've had great leaders like the Delaware Nurses Association that was an earlier supporter in our coalition. And the people that have really been on the front lines are the ones who really see the need for this and want to get it done.
Valerie Earnshaw:So Liz you've mentioned this a few different times about how, you know, there's increased attention to this right now during the current pandemic. So can you talk about how the pandemic has sort of shown a light on this issue? What are some of the things that people have been experiencing that would make their lives easier if they had the ability to take a longer leave or a leave at all?
Liz Richards:Right. Well, president Biden touched on this last night in his state of the union, but across the nation two and a half million women have left the workforce. And that's in large part because they have not been able to square the demands of work and family, and a lot of that's because there's things going on with childcare. But a lot of it too is a family member who is sick and they need to act as the primary caregiver. We know that women are more likely to be primary caregivers in households. And we also know that during the pandemic that has really, really been exacerbated. So that is where a lot of the urgency is coming from. But it's also happened before, before I've talked to a lot of women who, when they have a kid and they don't have paid family and medical leave and they have a child and they have to be out for an extended period of time anyway, they're not going to have any pay and no guarantee of getting their job back. A lot of them just say, you know what, I'm just leaving all together. And a lot of them would come back if they had that option and studies have shown that workers are more likely to come back after taking leave if they have it, if they have it paid. So that's one thing. And frankly, just the pandemic has highlighted the injustice of the system. There are a lot of healthcare workers out there who are on the front lines, who do not have access to paid family medical leave. They are the ones that are taking care of people in those situations, but there's a lot of CNAs and people that are working in the healthcare system that don't have those benefits themselves. So I think that we owe it to them. We owe it to our communities to make sure that everyone has the ability to care for themselves and their family when illness strikes. So we're really focusing on that. And frankly, this is an economic issue of making sure we can keep people in the workforce, keep people going, because otherwise we are going to continue to see these trends where we lose women in the workforce. And we see people struggling to make ends meet.
Valerie Earnshaw:As I'm listening to you. Like I'm typically like a glass half full optimist kind of person, especially I think as a stigma researcher, you have to be because like, you know, if you thought that no change was ever possible, it could be a very tough thing to research, but as someone who's like not really involved with political systems, I mean, I vote, I do, you know, all of the.
Carly Hill:your civic duties.
Valerie Earnshaw:Civic duties,Yeah. But beyond that, I think, especially, I don't know if it's the case that this is an issue more so in our current political climate or our recent political climate, I think it's really easy for people to feel disillusioned and that stuff doesn't get done. And then also when I layer into this, like the gender issues, and also after this to ask you about some of the racial inequity issues... I feel like when there are issues that disproportionately affect women and people of color, it's like harder to get traction on making change. So how are you feeling in terms of optimism right now? I mean, do you feel like there's purchase? That maybe there's an opportunity to make leave or to make change? It's great that some of our public health association and medical associations have this week been like, we need this, but we've had our national associations calling for this for like 15 years. So how optimistic are you feeling as someone who's like in the trenches of the issue?
Liz Richards:I'm feeling more optimistic than ever that a policy like this could happen and I'll tell you why.
Valerie Earnshaw:Yes.
Liz Richards:First of all, we have a legislature that I think certainly in the Senate leadership who released a great op-ed. I think it was last week saying that this is the single most impactful policy we could pass in the wake of COVID-19. I think that the Senate wants to get this done and I'm hopeful that the house will as well. And I think that the pandemic has kind of reset the political agenda to a certain extent, certainly for the minds of families who really are going to be voting on these issues, I truly believe. And when you talk to them, these are the things they're most concerned about. But I would also say that I agree with your point, that care has been undervalued for a long, long time. Especially when we talk about on the national level, they are, have been doing, pushing the line, that care is infrastructure. I n a new infrastructure package that they've been pushing. They've been reiterating that it's not just about building roads and bridges. It's about making sure that families at home can continue working, that t hey, we have the infrastructure at home to have a workforce that can be healthy and keep going. So I think that in the coming days and weeks, we're going to see a lot more coming from our lawmakers, which is really exciting because it's really just something t hat their voters are demanding and they l istened to their constituents. And that's what we've been focusing on. We've also been engaging, unusual communities that you may not think would be on board. We've been engaging child abuse prevention communities. We've been engaging domestic violence prevention communities. And I think everyone is coming together because it really just does touch every part of our economy and our workforce a nd our life. So we are building a broad coalition and showing that t here's a real desire to get this done now.
Valerie Earnshaw:I think Carly, you were remarking on what a broad coalition this was. Did you have any,
Carly Hill:Right Yeah, that was actually was one of my questions that I was just curious for my own knowledge really is just, what does it look like when all these stakeholders come together and sort of like, you know, especially the faith-based, that's an interesting thing that we haven't really talked about on the show being, you know, sex, drugs and science religion doesn't come up often. So can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Liz Richards:Yeah. If you think about when someone would need paid family medical leave, we're talking about having a child, maybe it's end of life. Maybe it's someone who's really sick. A lot of those situations are situations where people turn to their faith community. They call up their pastor, they call up their priest. They talk to folks. And I think that that's kind of the stop of where a lot of this community help comes from. We did a segment with Rabbi Robinson over from down in Wilmington, and he was wonderful and talked about how these connections really overlap. Communities of faith were also involved in the paid sick days effort when I was doing that in Maryland. And I think that that is really where a lot of that comes from. And when you talk to people and kind of explain the issue they immediately get in. And I think that there's a lot of people out there who, you know, me as a person of faith, believe that this is something that ties in with their beliefs and ties in with what they want to get done. And I think that it's been really inspiring to see everyone coming together for this. And in terms of like the, the nuts and bolts of how it happens. I mean, it's really like a field campaign. Getting back to my campaign training. It's you talk to people, you explain what it is. You, you make your pitch, you hear what they have to say. You hear what they think about it and why it would matter to them. It's not like a, oh, okay, let me just send out a notice. And everyone get on board. It is really, it takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of conversations. And then, you know, with each new group that comes on, we basically talk together weekly, talk about our plans, take actions, get things happening, because I think we are all focused on the same thing, It makes it a lot easier. There are some coalitions that are pretty broad and they work on a number of things-- Because we are kind of laser focused on paid family medical leave. I think everyone has something different to contribute. So it's been really, really great and exciting and we're going forward every day and new things are happening. So it's really cool.
Carly Hill:That's awesome. So how do, how can, how can scientists sort of help with these grassroots efforts with these sort of, like you said, knocking around, going back to your campaign roots, you know, how can we as scientists help you and others like you?
Liz Richards:Well, one thing that if any Delaware scientists are listening to this that would like to contribute their expertise and skills. One of the best things to do is to contact your legislator and you can do that a number of ways you can reach out directly, but there's also opportunities to testify. And that could be through written testimony and in public in-person testimony. I mean, right now it's virtual, but when this bill does go through, there is an opportunity to basically for every, every Delawarean, but I think particularly for scientists who focus on the broad implications that have an effect on everybody to kind of share your knowledge and share why you think this is important. So that's one thing I think the other thing that you can do is do research on this, frankly, I know Valerie, you referenced a number of studies that we work with that research every day we are using it. And all these policies are really rooted in that research and science. And I think that it could be more expansive, frankly. I think there's a lot of places to investigate that haven't been done yet. And so continuing to explore the impact on families, continuing to have a better understanding on how this affects health outcomes, I think is really helpful as we develop these policies and make the case for why the specifics of it are so important too, because as a general policy, it's important. But when we get into the nitty gritty of, you know, what should the wage replacement level be and why does that matter? And why is it important that every worker is covered, not just workers that work at a business, 50 employees and more. I think all of those things really help us have a full understanding of how this impacts families and improves health.
Valerie Earnshaw:So this is super helpful. I mean, this is like, this is really great to hear as someone who does science that hopefully, maybe sometimes it has implications for changes that people are actually trying to make. So, so one thing that I'm really interested in, what you're saying is that the research is out there, you're using the research. First, just a small question. Like where do you find the research? Like, are you on, I go to Google scholar, like, do you go to, do you find the peer reviewed papers? Or do you read summaries? Like where do you access the research?
Liz Richards:Well, I read summaries most of the time, there's different organizations at the national level that have really been helping coordinate this. And frankly we coordinate together and they kind of have led the research and coordinated with different groups and really dug in. So there are experts on the national level who really know the ins and outs and are frankly the ones that are helping really write the laws. Concurrently while we are writing the state law, there's a federal proposal that's on the table. It hasn't been introduced yet, but there's really a whole paid leave network, essentially of people that have been working on this issue for decades now, longer than I have for sure, and have been really hammering away at it. I mean, a lot of the studies that I've read and referenced to go back to the nineties or the eighties, some of them, you know, especially when you're talking about maternity leave and of course we are focused on parental leave because we know that it's important for mothers and fathers to have access to paid leave when a child is born, frankly, it also takes experimentation.
Speaker 2:The more states that do this, the more research that can be done on how the policies actually have an effect. Because right now it's a lot of like, okay, well, this business did this and we're doing a pilot study or something like that. But as we pass more policies, we'll have a more full understanding of how we can both pass the laws, but then improve them over time and make things continue to make things workable and better for families.
Valerie Earnshaw:So to me, it sounds like one thing that could be useful for scientists doing work in any area is to make sure or think about ways that if you're doing research that's relevant to an organization and what they're doing out there in the world, that maybe you should try to make sure it crosses their desk. You know, like either by connecting with whoever that leader in the field is in your field, that you know, is doing policy relevant work or who is working in these groups, like get it to them so they can include it in the reports or reach out to the Liz's of the world and just say, Hey, I live down the street from you, I'm at the university of Delaware. I did this thing. Maybe it's helpful for you. I don't know. But for us just publishing in our journal is not enough. Usually it might, you know, maybe, but we need to be thinking about how can we get it into these, like into these summaries? Or how can we, how can we be communicating directly with the groups that we think could use it? And maybe we need to be more thoughtful. I think scientists, aren't always great about reaching out and being like,"Hey Liz, you know, I did this little study, maybe it's useful for you".
Carly Hill:Or like you said to Liz, it's not like you just like send out a bulletin to everyone in the state. And you're like, cool, we're a coalition now everybody's on board. Like you have to, you know, so, and that's kind of what we as scientists, I think that we're guilty of doing is saying like, okay, we did that paper. It's out there, it's your responsibility to go look at it and do whatever you want with it. Like, my, my work is done. I think that's kind of the link we're missing. There is like, how do we get it to, to the Liz's? And like, do we, you know, maybe it is as simple as like just going out and doing it yourself, you know, sending the email with the paper attached or doing whatever and sort of getting better at that as a science community.
Liz Richards:Absolutely. I mean, I, it would be thrilling to me if that would happen. And I know it does. Like, I will also say that, you know, as I'm taking public health classes, like I'm learning how to read scientific papers, but the people in the advocacy world, which is where I kind of sit, I dabble in the policy side. I mean, it's, it's all interconnected, but, but there are people that specialize in certain parts of it and the advocacy folks, we all rely on each other.
Speaker 2:There's no use in research that is never acted on. So that's the, what we're doing. And in my public health, I'm going to, I'm going to Johns Hopkins for public health right now...
Valerie Earnshaw:Oh is that, you know, you decided to like really settle on your Public Health education. You're like"oh just go to this school. I t's like close by.."
Liz Richards:Online! It's all online. So it's fun.
Valerie Earnshaw:Congratulations That's tremendous.
Carly Hill:yeah!
Valerie Earnshaw:Public health degree at Hopkins. That's l ike really phenomenal. So.
Liz Richards:Thank you! I appreciate it. It's been really interesting and really cool to do while this is all going on. But I guess what I was just thinking was that I'm always the one that's boiling it down, trying to make it, I'm trying to be the in-between between the researchers and the people, because we really, this is about communicating to a very large number of people. And so a lot of my fellow students at Hopkins are doctors, or they are doing research or they are doing these things. And I always feel like the person in the room knows the talking point version of a lot of things, but I'm delving more into the other side and vice versa. So I felt like a fish out of water, but more and more, I think it's important to, to know the science behind it and to understand why those studies are done the way they are. But also understanding from my perspective, like what I live and breathe is the translating and the advocacy to make sure that it's accessible to everybody and to make sure that we can actually get things done. So that's what I'm working on.
Valerie Earnshaw:Couldn't love it more. I mean, I think it's an all hands on deck, you know, like we need the... So for... The reason you, I think, bring up doctors in particular is that a lot of people who are MDs go back after they get their MD to get an MPH, a Master's in Public Health, which I don't know, it's like a glutton for punishment type. So that's why, especially at a place like Hopkins, which is one of our top schools, public health in the nation, you're going to see a lot of like doctors in your Master's classes, but Liz, the other thing that I'm like reflecting one as you're talking is that as someone who's working in the advocacy field, you're seeing gaps, you're seeing gaps in the research that if you had answers to certain questions, you'd be able to do better advocacy. So, can we hover for a moment on that and brainstorm together about if you're seeing gaps? How can you tell researchers about those? You know, how can we build connections? Is it that we need to get researchers at the table to be learning about that together? I think in general, a lot of scientists are like, here is my program of research. I'm doing this study. Here's what interests me. But a lot of people are interested in doing science that is helpful for communities. So, so from your perspective, as someone who's straddling this, like, you know, taking courses and your MPH and learning about this process, but also someone who looks around and sees gaps in the research, what are your thoughts on how we can engage scientists to address some of these things that aren't being currently addressed?
Liz Richards:It's an interesting question, because I think all it takes is outreach. Sometimes it's figuring out who that person is and you have no idea. Like, I'm sure there's plenty of people out there right now in Delaware who may be interested or researching around these areas who just have never heard of the Delaware Cares Coalition before. And that's largely because we only started this year, we're brand new, but it goes both ways. And I think that the willingness to do that kind of outreach, the willingness to tailor your research to something that other people are working on. And frankly just like continuing to work on something that's already begun rather than going off in a different direction on something completely new. Although that's great too, frankly, but I'm every day connecting with new people and it's a lot. And I think that it's really just a matter of asking. It's kind of a terrible answer,
Valerie Earnshaw:I t hink t hat's a great answer,and I think, I mean, that was sort of an unfair question b ecause I'm asking the only n on-scientist on the call to tell me.
Liz Richards:It's funny. I asked my cousin this question though, c ause she is a r esearcher. She happened to also get her MBA, but she's getting her doctorate in public health in California. And I asked her a similar question. I'm like, okay, so you do a thesis, you write it and where does it go? I have no idea. And she's like, oh, that's the distribution phase. And I'm like, okay, what is that? U m, because I've asked myself the same question, many times there are specific questions and data points that I have wondered. And I've asked like some of the national experts that they have that data point and they're like, no, we don't. And it's really like a resource allocation question for, I think a lot of things. I mean, frankly research and science is not always cheap. And I think it's a matter of prioritizing the questions you want to answer in many cases. But I think that if you have that and there's the willingness and the people that want to do it, it's really just a matter of connecting them. And maybe there's more things we can be doing to do that because I don't know if a current like, system for it. Do you?
Valerie Earnshaw:So at some universities there are, and university of Delaware has something like this, like community engagement groups. And the idea is that community folks who have questions or want to learn about something can go to this like Center and then the Center will engage people at the University and like vice versa. Like if you're a university person, you can go to the center and say, I'm doing research in paid leave and I want to, and then ideally that person would sort of like go find Liz, and then they would be a matchmaker. But in, you know, in reality though, for me as a scientist, living in Delaware, I have tried to just like show up at groups. So I show up to the Delaware HIV Planning Council. I mean, I've had some conflicts with the meetings, but I try to sit on working groups. And I also show up for the changing perceptions work group of our like Behavioral Health Consortium, which is really focused on like the substance use epidemic in Delaware. We're like the second state with the highest rates of opioid overdose deaths. So I try to just show up to those, but I also have to say that I'm more able to do that now as like, as a tenured person who has a bit more flexibility in my time, although I did do it pre tenure, but anyway, I'm just, I'm sensitive to the fact that people have a lot going on and it's sometimes showing up to a lot of meetings where you're not always getting research done, but you're learning and you're connecting that, that takes time. But I also just like, love it. I love like learning about what's going on in the state and you know, I see, like, research ideas everywhere. So yeah,
Liz Richards:I think that making connections is the coolest part. And I will say that I'll tell you one of the most interesting intersectional questions that came up recently. There's someone in our coalition who is in the coalition in a different capacity, but they work a lot on gun violence prevention. And they said, if we're not going to protect people from gun violence, we need to make sure they can take paid leave when they get shot. Wow. That was like, whoa. U h, and she said that the people that are being most impacted by gun violence are also the ones who are not likely to have paid family medical leave. And she's met people who, you know, a family member gets shot and someone is taking unpaid time to go and care for them or to see them in the hospital. And I think that that has been one of the more interesting things of this, those kinds of aha moments when you're like, wow, I wouldn't have made that connection myself. And I think I only did because she brought it up and it made a lot of sense. I'm glad that you're doing that because the more we talked to each other about those kinds of things, the more we can really connect the dots,
Valerie Earnshaw:What a smart observation. I mean, Delaware is, yeah. Wilmington has high, high, high rates of gun violence, especially towards youth. Like my husband works, in a high school in Delaware and his students have experienced gun violence. They witnessed gun violence. Their families are affected by gun violence. So, wow. That really, that really is a great, I mean, that's a sad and important observation.
Liz Richards:But it also shows the to make it on the positive side, it shows the breadth of positive changes we can make if we do fix this problem. And I think that there've been a lot of those moments where I will say it's also stressful understanding how much of a difference it could make because you're like"we have to do this. We have to get this done". But the more people who can kind of feel that urgency and that like light under their seat? You know, that kind of thing, that is what will make the difference and where we can really mobilize people to make change.
Valerie Earnshaw:So we've talked a little bit about the process of coalition building of getting the stakeholders at the table. Okay. So now you have your stakeholders and let's pretend you've got the research. Like you have all these gaps filled in. What next, like, what do you do? How do you go engage with Dover, I guess, which is our state Capitol? Like how do you level that up the, like, up the chain. And I know you said you're more on the advocacy side, but I'm just, I'm curious as to how that happens.
Liz Richards:Well and that's the part that I know very well, frankly. I mean, that's the advocacy part that's basically, and we use the research to form the coalition too. Like when we're talking to people about, this is why you should care about this issue. This is why you should join. The research is already there. That's already helping us at every step of the way, but basically a number of the organizations within our coalition have are powerful in their own right. And they all are already talking to lawmakers about a number of priorities for them. The cool thing about a coalition is the strength in numbers. It's like, it's not just that each of us do this. We are all speaking together in one voice that we want to get this done. And having said that there were some groups that are still outside our coalition who were pushing just as hard, the AARP, for example, this is their top priority of the year. And they are a huge power player in Dover because it's a huge constituency in Delaware. They get a lot done, they do a lot of wonderful work. And so it's basically talking to lawmakers in Dover, you know, the people who are heading these organizations, but the other piece of it is communicating with those lawmakers constituents back home, making phone calls, knocking on doors. I mean, that's not really happening right now because of the pandemic, but engaging different communities, having public events like public information. Um, a lot of that happens on social media. We are kind of getting the word out and a lot of it is engaging existing networks. So a lot of the groups in our coalition have a number of members that are paying attention to what they're doing and what they care about. So when the bill gets released, which is actually going to be in a couple of days, it's planning to be introduced, sneak peak, surprise, surprise. There will be a action alert that goes out and says, contact your legislator. This is the time it's released. We need to let everyone know that you want to see this happen. So really the most effective people to pass a policy are a legislator's constituents. The more they hear from those constituents, the more they're like, okay, if I want to keep my job, I better do what they tell me to do. So that is what we are doing. And I will also say that one of the challenges of paid leave as a policy is that we're often up against a monied lobby that is pushing against it. We may not have as much money as them, but we have the people on our side. And so what we are really focused on is the people power side of it, making sure that we lift up those voices, share the stories of people who have been impacted by this. And frankly, you know, promote business owners who do support this and do see the value and understand that is actually the most cost-effective way to provide a brand new benefit to their employees that will save them money by reducing turnover. And that will really improve morale. There's just what the studies show and get their employees back sooner. If they take leave.
Valerie Earnshaw:Well, Liz, as someone who myself lives with a chronic illness and someone who would want to take time off for loved ones, if they were to get sick and just like, as a human being in Delaware, I'm really grateful that you're doing this work. So thank you for doing it. Thanks for talking about it with us today. It sounds like you're on track to like put yourself out of a job. So I'm really excited to see what next great things you do after, after you accomplish this goal with your MPH. And we hope that you'll come back, you know, maybe next summer and tell us what new things are on your horizon. So thank you so much.
Liz Richards:Thank you. And Carly, Valerie, just, this has been great. I've really enjoyed talking to both of you and what a great podcast. Thank you.
Valerie Earnshaw:Thanks to the Stigma and Health Inequities Lab at the University of Delaware for their help at the podcast, including Sarah Lopez, Molly Marine, James Wallace, and Ashley Roberts.
Carly Hill:Thanks to city girl for the music. As always be sure to check us out on Instagram at Sex, Drugs, Science, and stay up to date on new episodes by clicking subscribe.
Valerie Earnshaw:Thanks to all of you for listening.[inaudible].